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Transcript of the Democratic Presidential Debate
Martin O’Malley, Hillary Clinton and Senator
Bernie Sanders.
TRAVIS DOVE FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES
JANUARY 17, 2016
Following is a transcript of the Democratic debate,
as transcribed by the Federal News Service.
HOLT: Good evening and welcome to the NBC
News Youtube Democratic candidate’s debate.
After all the campaigning, soon, Americans will
have their say with the first votes of the 2016
campaign just 15 days away in Iowa.HOLT: And
New Hampshire not far behind.
Tonight will be the final opportunity to see these
candidates face to face before the voting begins.
Our purpose here tonight is to highlight and
examine the differences among the three
Democratic candidates. So let’s get started.
Please welcome Secretary Hillary Clinton,
Senator Bernie Sanders and Governor Martin
O’Malley.
Interactive Graphic | Who’s Winning the
Presidential Campaign? History suggests that
each party’s eventual nominee will emerge from
2015 in one of the top two or three positions, as
measured by endorsements, fund-raising and
polling.
(APPLAUSE)
Well, welcome to all of you. Hope you’re excited,
we’re excited. We want to thank our hosts, the
Congressional Black Caucus Institute. I’m joined
by my colleague Andrea Mitchell tonight. The
rules are simple. Sixty seconds for answers, 30
seconds for follow-ups or rebuttals. I know you’ll
all keep exactly to time, so our job should be
pretty easy here tonight. We’ll have questions
from the Youtube community throughout the
debate.
This is a critical point in the race. You’ve been
defining your differences with each other
especially vigorously in the last week on the
campaign trail. We’re here to facilitate this
conversation on behalf of the voters so that they
know exactly where you stand as you face off
tonight. Let’s have a great debate.
We’ll begin with 45 second opening statements
from each candidate, starting with Secretary
Clinton.
Graphic | 2016 Primary Calendar and Results
The 2016 calendar is still fluid, with primary and
caucus dates uncertain in more than a dozen
states. Both parties are requiring all states but
four to wait until March to hold their nominating
contests or face delegate penalties.
CLINTON: Well, good evening. And I want to
thank the Congressional Black Caucus Institute
and the people of Charleston for hosting us here
on the eve of Martin Luther King Day tomorrow.
You know, I remember well when my youth
minister took me to hear Dr. King. I was a
teenager. And his moral clarity, the message that
he conveyed that evening really stayed with me
and helped to set me on a path to service. I also
remember that he spent the last day of his life in
Memphis, fighting for dignity and higher pay for
working people.
And that is our fight still. We have to get the
economy working and incomes rising for
everyone, including those who have been left out
and left behind. We have to keep our
communities and our country safe. We need a
president who can do all aspects of the job.
I understand that this is the hardest job in the
world. I’m prepared and ready to take it on and I
hope to earn your support to be the nominee of
the Democratic Party and the next president of
the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Thank you. Senator Sanders, your opening
statement, sir.
SANDERS: Thank you. As we honor the
extraordinary life of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.,
it’s important not only that we remember what
he stood for, but that we pledge to continue his
vision to transform our country. As we look out
at our country today, what the American people
understand is we have an economy that’s rigged,
that ordinary Americans are working longer hours
for lower wages, 47 million people living in
poverty, and almost all of the new income and
wealth going to the top one percent.SANDERS:
And then, to make a bad situation worse, we
have a corrupt campaign finance system where
millionaires and billionaires are spending
extraordinary amounts of money to buy
elections.
This campaign is about a political revolution to
not only elect the president, but to transform
this country.
HOLT: Senator, thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
And Governor O’Malley, your opening statement,
sir.
O’MALLEY: Thank you. My name is Martin
O’Malley, I was born the year Dr. King delivered
his “I Have A Dream” speech.
And I want to thank the people of South
Carolina, not only for hosting our debate here
tonight, but also for what you taught all of us in
the aftermath of the tragic shooting at Mother
Emanuel Church.
You taught us, in fact, in keeping with Dr. King’s
teaching, that love would have the final word
when you took down the Confederate flag from
your state house; let go of the past and move
forward.
Eight years ago, you brought forward a new
leader in Barack Obama to save our country from
the second Great Depression. And that’s what
he’s done. Our country’s doing better, we’re
creating jobs again.
But in order to make good on the promise of
equal opportunity and equal justice under the
law, and we have urgent work to do, and the
voices of anger and fear and division that we’ve
heard coming off of the Republican presidential
podiums are pretty loud.
We need new leadership. We need to come
together as a people and build on the good
things that President Obama has done.
That’s why I’m running for president. I need your
help, I ask for your vote, and I look forward to
moving our country forward once again.
Thank you.
HOLT: All right. And Governor, thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: All right, to our first question, now. The
first question, I’ll be addressing to all of the
candidates.
President Obama came to office determined to
swing for the fences on health care reform.
Voters want to know how you would define your
presidency? How would you think big? So
complete this sentence: in my first 100 days in
office, my top three priorities will be — fill in the
blank.
Senator Sanders.
SANDERS: Well, that’s what our campaign is
about. It is thinking big. It is understanding that
in the wealthiest country in the history of the
world, we should have health care for every man,
woman, and child as a right that we should raise
the minimum wage to at least $15 an hour; that
we have got to create millions of decent- paying
jobs by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure.
So, what my first days are about is bringing
America together, to end the decline of the
middle class, to tell the wealthiest people in this
country that yes, they are going to start paying
their fair share of taxes, and that we are going
to have a government that works for all of us,
and not just big campaign contributors.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Secretary Clinton, same question, my first
100 days in office, my top three priorities will be.
CLINTON: I would work quickly to present to the
Congress my plans for creating more good jobs
in manufacturing, infrastructure, clean and
renewable energy, raising the minimum wage,
and guaranteeing, finally, equal pay for women’s
work.
I would also...
(APPLAUSE)
I would also be presenting my plans to build on
the Affordable Care Act and to improve it by
decreasing the out-of-pocket costs by putting a
cap on prescription drug costs; by looking for
ways that we can put the prescription drug
business and the health insurance company
business on a more stable platform that doesn’t
take too much money out of the pockets of
hard-working Americans.
And third, I would be working, in every way that I
knew, to bring our country together. We do have
too much division, too much mean- spiritedness.
There’s a lot we have to do on immigration
reform, on voting rights, on campaign finance
reform, but we need to do it together. That’s
how we’ll have the kind of country for the 21st
century that we know will guarantee our children
and grandchildren the kind of future they
deserve.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Governor O’Malley, same question.
O’MALLEY: Thank you. First of all, I would lay
out an agenda to make wages go up again for all
Americans, rather than down. Equal pay for equal
work, making it easier rather than harder for
people to join labor unions and bargain
collectively for better wages; getting 11 million
of our neighbors out of the underground shadow
economy by passing comprehensive immigration
reform, raising the minimum wage to $15 an
hour, however we can, wherever we can.
Secondly, I believe the greatest business
opportunity to come to the United States of
America in 100 years is climate change. And I
put forward a plan to move us to a 100 percent
clean electric energy grid by 2050 and create 5
million jobs along the way.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Thank you. You’ve all...
O’MALLEY: Finally — I’m sorry, that was second,
Lester.O’MALLEY: And third and finally, we need
a new agenda for America’s cities. We have not
had a new agenda for America’s cities since
Jimmy Carter. We need a new agenda for
America cities that will invest in the talents and
skills in our people, that will invest in CBVG
transportation, infrastructure and transit options,
and make our cities the leading edge in this
move to a redesigned built clean green energy
future that will employ our people.
HOLT: All right governor thank you.
We’ve all laid out large visions and we’re going
to cover a lot of the ground you talked about as
we continue in the evening. The last couple of
weeks of this campaign have featured some of
the sharpest exchanges in the race. Let’s start
with one of them, the issue of guns.
Senator Sanders, last week Secretary Clinton
called you quote, “a pretty reliable vote for the
gun lobby.” Right before the debate you changed
your position on immunity from lawsuits for gun
manufacturers, can you tell us why?
SANDERS: Well, I think Secretary Clinton knows
that what she says is very disingenuous. I have a
D-minus voting record from the NRA. I was in
1988, there were three candidates running for
congress in the state of Vermont, I stood up to
the gun lobby and came out and maintained the
position that in this country we should not be
selling military style assault weapons.
I have supported from day one and instant
background check to make certain that people
who should have guns do not have guns. And
that includes people of criminal backgrounds,
people who are mentally unstable. I support
what President Obama is doing in terms of trying
to close the gun show loop holes and I think it
should be a federal crime if people act as
dormant (ph).
We have seen in this city a horrendous tragedy
of a crazed person praying with people in the
coming up and shooting nine people. This should
not be a political issue. What we should be doing
is working together.
And by the way, as a senator from a rural state
that has virtually no gun control, I believe that I
am in an excellent position to bring people
together to fight the sensible...
HOLT: Senator, but you didn’t answer the
question that you did change your position on
immunity from gun manufacturers. So can you...
SANDERS: What I have said, is that gun
manufacturer’s liability bill has some good
provisions among other things, we’ve prohibited
ammunition that would’ve killed cops who had
protection on. We have child safety protection
work on guns in that legislation. And what we
also said, “is a small mom and pop gun shop
who sells a gun legally to somebody should not
be held liable if somebody does something
terrible with that gun.”
So what I said is, “ I would re-look at it.” We are
going to re- look at it and I will support stronger
provisions.
HOLT: Secretary Clinton, would you like to
respond to Senator Sanders.
CLINTON: Yes look, I have made it clear based
on Senator Sanders’ own record that he has
voted with the NRA, with the gun lobby numerous
times. He voted against the Brady Bill five times.
He voted for what we call, the Charleston
Loophole. He voted for immunity from gunmakers
and sellers which the NRA said, “was the most
important piece of gun legislation in 20 years. “
He voted to let guns go onto the Amtrak, guns go
into National Parks. He voted against doing
research to figure out how we can save lives.
Let’s not forget what this is about, 90 people a
day die from gun violence in our country. That’s
33,000 people a year.
One of the most horrific examples not a block
from here where we had nine people murdered.
Now, I am pleased to hear that Senator Sanders
has reversed his position on immunity and I look
forward to him joining with those members of
congress who have already introduced
legislation. There is no other industry in America
that was given the total pass that the gun
makers and dealers were and that needs to be
reversed.
HOLT: All right, Governor O’Malley, you signed
tough gun control measures as governor of
Maryland and there are a lot Democrats in the
audience here in South Carolina who own guns.
This conversation might be worrying many of
them. They may be hearing, “you want to take
my guns. What would you say to them?
O’MALLEY: This is what I would say Lester, look
see, I’ve listened to Secretary Clinton and
Senator Sanders go back and forth on which of
them has the most inconsistent record on gun
safety legislation and I would have to agree with
both of them. They’ve both been inconsistent
when it comes to this issue.O’MALLEY: I’m the
one candidate on this stage that actually brought
people together to pass comprehensive gun
safety legislation. This is very personal to me
being from Baltimore. I will never forget one
occasion visiting a little boy in Johns’ Hopkins
Hospital, he was getting a birthday haircut, the
age of three when drug dealers turned that
barbershop into a shooting gallery and that boy’s
head was pierced with a bullet. And I remember
visiting him, it did not kill him - I remember
visiting him and his mother in Johns Hopkins
Hospital. He was getting a birthday haircut, the
age of three when drug dealers turned that
barbershop into a shooting gallery, and that boys
head was pierced with a bullet.
And, I remember visiting him, it did not kill him. I
remember visiting him and his mother in Johns
Hopkins Hospital. In his diapers (ph) with tubes
running in and out of his head, same age as my
little boy.
So, after the slaughter of the kids in Connecticut
last year, we brought people together. We did
pass in our state comprehensive gun safety
legislation. It did have a ban on combat assault
weapons, universal background checks, and you
know what? We did not interrupt a single
person’s hunting season.
I’ve never met a self respecting deer hunter that
needed an AR-15 to down a deer. And, so...
(APPLAUSE)
... we’re able to actually do these things.
HOLT: Alright, Governor, thank you.
Secretary Clinton, this is a community that has
suffered a lot of heartache in the last year. Of
course, as you mentioned, the church shootings.
We won’t forget the video of Walter Scott being
shot in the back while running from police.
We understand that a jury will decide whether
that police officer was justified, but it plays
straight to the fears of many African American
men that their lives are cheap. Is that
perception, or in your view, is it reality?
CLINTON: Well, sadly it’s reality, and it has been
heartbreaking, and incredibly outraging to see
the constant stories of young men like Walter
Scott, as you said, who have been killed by
police officers. Their needs to be a concerted
effort to address the systemic racism in our
criminal justice system.
And, that requires a very clear, agenda for
retraining police officers, looking at ways to end
racial profiling, finding more ways to really bring
the disparities that stalk our country into high
relief.
One out of three African American men may well
end up going to prison. That’s the statistic. I
want people hear to think what we would be
doing if it was one out of three white men, and
very often, the black men are arrested, convicted
and incarcerated ...
(APPLAUSE)
...for offensive that do not lead to the same
results for white men.
So, we have a very serious problem that we can
no longer ignore.
HOLT: You time is up.
Senator Sanders, my next question is...
SANDERS: ...Well, I — look...
HOLT: ... It’s actually — actually my next
question is to you...
SANDERS: ... Let me respond to what the
secretary said. We have a criminal justice
system which is broken. Who in America is
satisfied that we have more people in jail than
any other country on Earth, including China?
Disproportionately African American, and Latino.
Who is satisfied that 51% of African American
young people are either unemployed, or
underemployed? Who is satisfied that millions of
people have police records for possessing
marijuana when the CEO’s of Wall Street
companies who destroyed our economy have no
police records.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Senator Sanders...
SANDERS: ... We need to take a very hard look
at our...
HOLT: Senator. Senator Sanders...
SANDERS: ... criminal justice system, investing in
jobs, and education not in jails and incarceration
.
HOLT: ... Just over a week ago the chairman of
the Congressional Black Caucus endorsed
Secretary Clinton, not you. He said that choosing
her over you was not a hard decision. In fact, our
polling shows she’s beating you more than two to
one among minority voters. How can you be the
nominee if you don’t have that support?
SANDERS: Well, let me talk about polling.
(LAUGHTER) SANDERS: As Secretary Clinton
well knows, when this campaign began she was
50 points ahead of me. We were all of three
percentage points. Guess what?
In Iowa, New Hampshire, the race is very, very
close. Maybe we’re ahead New Hampshire.
(CHEERING)
SANDERS: In terms of polling, guess what? We
are running ahead of Secretary Clinton. In terms
of taking on my taking on my good friend, Donald
Trump, beating him by 19 points in New
Hampshire, 13 points in the last national poll that
we saw.
To answer your question. When the African
American community becomes familiar with my
Congressional record and with our agenda, and
with our views on the economy, and criminal
justice — just as the general population has
become more supportive, so will the African
American community, so will the Latino
community. We have the momentum, we’re on a
path to a victory.
(APPLAUSE) (CHEERING)
O’MALLEY: Lester, I (inaudible)
HOLT: Governor, I’m going to come to you in a
second.
Google searches for the words, “Black Lives
Matter” surpassed, “civil rights movement”. And,
here in South Carolina, “black lives matter” was
the number one trending political issue.HOLT:
Governor O’Malley, you’ve campaigned on your
record as governor of Maryland, and before that,
the mayor of Baltimore. Last year, of course,
Baltimore was rocked by violent unrest in the
wake of the death of Freddie Gray.
And right from the start of your campaign, you’ve
been dogged by those who blame your tough-on-
crime, so-called zero tolerance policies as mayor
for contributing to that unrest. What
responsibility do you bear?
O’MALLEY: Yes, let’s talk about this. When I ran
for mayor in 1999, Lester, it was not because our
city was doing well. It was because we were
burying over 300 young, poor black men every
single year.
And that’s why I ran, because, yes, black lives
matter. And we did a number of things. We
weren’t able to make our city immune from
setbacks as the Freddie Gray unrest and tragic
death showed.
But we were able to save a lot of lives doing
things that actually worked to improve police and
community relations. The truth of the matter is,
we created a civilian review board. And many of
these things are in the new agenda for criminal
justice reform that I’ve put forward.
We created a civilian review board, gave them
their own detectives. We required the reporting
of discourtesy, use of excessive force, lethal
force. I repealed the possession of marijuana as
a crime in our state.
I drove our incarceration rate down to 20-year
lows, and drove violent crime down to 30-year
lows, and became the first governor south of the
Mason-Dixon line to repeal the death penalty.
I feel a responsibility every day to find things
that work...
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: All right. Let’s talk...
O’MALLEY: ... and to do more of them to reform
our criminal justice system.
HOLT: Let’s talk more about policing and the
criminal justice system. Senator Sanders, a few
times tonight we’re going to hear from some of
the most prominent voices on YouTube, starting
with Franchesca Ramsey, who tackles racial
stereotypes through her videos. Let’s watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCHESCA RAMSEY: Hey, I’m Franchesca
Ramsey. I believe there’s a huge conflict of
interest when local prosecutors investigate cases
of police violence within their own communities.
For example, last month, the officers involved in
the case of 12- year-old Tamir Rice weren’t
indicted. How would your presidency ensure that
incidents of police violence are investigated and
prosecuted fairly?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLT: Senator Sanders.
SANDERS: I apologize for not hearing all of that
question.
HOLT: Would you like me to read it back to you?
SANDERS: Yes.
HOLT: Prosecutors — “I believe there’s a huge
conflict of interest when local prosecutors
investigate cases of police violence within their
communities. Most recently, we saw this with a
non- indictment of the officers involved in the
case of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. How would you
presidency ensure incidents of police violence
are investigated and prosecuted fairly?”
SANDERS: Absolutely. This is a responsibility for
the U.S. Justice Department to get involved.
Whenever anybody in this country is killed while
in police custody, it should automatically trigger
a U.S. attorney general’s investigation.
(APPLAUSE)
Second of all, and I speak as a mayor who
worked very closely and well with police officers,
the vast majority of whom are honest, hard-
working people trying to do a difficult job, but let
us be clear.
If a police officer breaks the law, like any public
official, that officer must be held accountable.
(APPLAUSE)
And thirdly, we have got to de-militarize our
police departments so they don’t look like
occupying armies. We’ve got to move toward
community policing.
And fourthly, we have got to make our police
departments look like the communities they
serve in their diversity.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Secretary Clinton, this question is for you.
Tonight parts of America are in the grip of a
deadly heroin epidemic, spanning race and class,
hitting small towns and cities alike. It has
become a major issue in this race.
In a lot of places where you’ve been
campaigning, despite an estimated trillion dollars
spent, many say the war on drugs has failed. So
what would you do?
CLINTON: Well, Lester, you’re right. Everywhere I
go to campaign, I’m meeting families who are
affected by the drug problem that mostly is
opioids and heroin now, and lives are being lost
and children are being orphaned. And I’ve met a
lot of grandparents who are now taking care of
grandchildren.
So I have tried to come out with a
comprehensive approach that, number one, does
tell the states that we will work with you from
the federal government putting more money,
about a billion dollars a year, to help states have
a different approach to dealing with this
epidemic.
The policing needs to change. Police officers
must be equipped with the antidote to a heroin
overdose or an opioid overdose, known as
Narcan. They should be able to administer it. So
should firefighters and others.
We have to move away from treating the use of
drugs as a crime and instead, move it to where it
belongs, as a health issue. And we need to divert
more people from the criminal justice system
into drug courts, into treatment, and recovery.
HOLT: And that’s time. CLINTON: So this is the
kind of approach that we should take in dealing
with what is now...
HOLT: Senator...
CLINTON: ... a growing epidemic.
HOLT: Senator Sanders, would you like to
respond?
SANDERS: Sure. I agree...
(APPLAUSE)
I agree with everything the Secretary said, but
let me just add this, there is a responsibility on
the part of the pharmaceutical industry and the
drug companies who are producing all of these
drugs and not looking at the consequence of it.
And second of all, when we talk about addiction
being a disease, the Secretary is right, what that
means is we need a revolution in this country in
terms of mental health treatment. People should
be able to get the treatment that they need
when they need it, not two months from now,
which is why I believe in universal...
HOLT: That’s...
SANDERS: ... healthcare with mental health...
HOLT: ... time.
SANDERS: ... a part of that.
HOLT: We’re going to get into all that coming
up.
O’MALLEY (?): Lester, just ten seconds.
HOLT: But we’re going to take a break and we
need to take a break...
O’MALLEY (?): Just 10 seconds. All of the
things...
HOLT: ... and when we come back, the anger
brewing in America.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLT: Welcome back to Charleston. Let’s turn to
another area where there has been fierce
disagreement — that would be health care.
Senator Sanders and Secretary Clinton, you both
mentioned it in your 100-day priorities.
Let’s turn to my colleague, Andrea Mitchell now
to lead that questioning.
MITCHELL: Thank you, Lester.
Secretary Clinton, Senator Sanders favors what
he calls “Medicare for all.” Now, you said that
what he is proposing would tear up Obamacare
and replace it.
Secretary Clinton, is it fair to say to say that
Bernie Sanders wants to kill Obamacare?
CLINTON: Well, Andrea, I am absolutely
committed to universal health care. I have
worked on this for a long time, people may
remember that I took on the health insurance
industry back in the ’90s, and I didn’t quit until
we got the children’s health insurance program
that ensures eight million kids.
And I certainly respect Senator Sanders’
intentions, but when you’re talking about health
care, the details really matter. And therefore, we
have been raising questions about the nine bills
that he introduced over 20 years, as to how they
would work and what would be the impact on
people’s health care?
He didn’t like that, his campaign didn’t like it
either. And tonight, he’s come out with a new
health care plan. And again, we need to get into
the details. But here’s what I believe, the
Democratic Party and the United States worked
since Harry Truman to get the Affordable Care
Act passed.
We finally have a path to universal health care.
We have accomplished so much already. I do not
to want see the Republicans repeal it, and I don’t
to want see us start over again with a
contentious debate. I want us to defend and
build on the Affordable Care Act and improve it.
(APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: OK.
MITCHELL: Senator Sanders?
SANDERS: Secretary — Secretary Clinton didn’t
answer your question.
(LAUGHTER)
Because what her campaign was saying —
Bernie Sanders, who has fought for universal
health care for my entire life, he wants to end
Medicare, end Medicaid, end the children’s
health insurance program. That is nonsense.
What a Medicare-for-all program does is finally
provide in this country health care for every man,
woman and child as a right. Now, the truth is,
that Frank Delano Roosevelt, Harry Truman, do
you know what they believed in? They believed
that health care should be available to all of our
people.
I’m on the committee that wrote the Affordable
Care Act. I made the Affordable Care Act along
with Jim Clyburn a better piece of legislation. I
voted for it, but right now, what we have to deal
with is the fact that 29 million people still have
no health insurance. We are paying the highest
prices in the world for prescription drugs, getting
ripped off.
And here’s the important point, we are spending
far more per person on health care than the
people of any other country. My proposal,
provide health care to all people, get private
insurance out of health insurance, lower the cost
of health care for middle class families by 5,000
bucks.
That’s the vision we need to take.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: But — Senator Sanders, if I can...
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: You know, I have to say I’m not sure
whether we’re talking about the plan you just
introduced tonight, or we’re talking about the
plan you introduced nine times in the Congress.
But the fact is, we have the Affordable Care Act.
That is one of the greatest accomplishments of
President Obama, of the Democratic Party, and
of our country.
(APPLAUSE)
And we have already seen 19 million Americans
get insurance. We have seen the end of pre-
existing conditions keeping people from getting
insurance.
(APPLAUSE)
We have seen women no longer paying more for
our insurance than men. And we have seen
young people, up to the age of 26, being able to
stay on their parent’s policy.
SANDERS: But — what if we have...
CLINTON: Now, there are things we can do to
improve it, but to tear it up and start over again,
pushing our country back into that kind of a
contentious debate, I think is the wrong
direction.
SANDERS: It is — it is absolutely inaccurate.
O’MALLEY: I have to talk about something that’s
actually working in our state.
MITCHELL: Governor — Governor Sanders...
SANDERS: No one is tearing this up, we’re going
to go forward. But with the secretary neglected
to mention, not just the 29 million still have no
health insurance, that even more are
underinsured with huge copayments and
deductibles.
Tell me why we are spending almost three times
more than the British, who guarantee health care
to all of their people? Fifty percent more than
the French, more than the Canadians. The vision
from FDR and Harry Truman was health care for
all people as a right in a cost-effective way.
We’re not going to tear up the Affordable Care
Act. I helped write it. But we are going to move
on top of that to a Medicaid-for- all
system.O’MALLEY: Andrea — Andrea — Andrea.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
O’MALLEY: Instead of — Andrea, I think, instead
of attacking one another on health care, we
should be talking about the things that are
actually working.
In our state, we have moved to an all-payer
system. With the Affordable Care Act, we now
have moved all of our acute care hospitals, that
driver of cost at the center, away from fee-for-
service.
And actually to pay, we pay them based on how
well they keep patients out of the hospital. How
well they keep their patients. That’s the future.
We need to build on the Affordable Care Act, do
the things that work, and reduce costs and
increase access.
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: And that’s exactly what we are able to
do based on the foundation of the Affordable
Care Act — what Governor O’Malley just said is
one of the models that we will be looking at to
make sure we do get costs down, we do limit a
lot of the unnecessary costs that we still have in
the system.
But, with all due respect, to start over again with
a whole new debate is something that I think
would set us back. The Republicans just voted
last week to repeal the Affordable Care Act, and
thank goodness, President Obama vetoed it and
saved Obamacare for the American people.
(APPLAUSE)
MITCHELL: Senator Sanders, let me ask you this,
though...
SANDERS: Yeah.
MITCHELL: ... you’ve talked about Medicare for
all...
SANDERS: Yes.
MITCHELL: .. and tonight you’ve released a very
detailed plan, just two... SANDERS: Not all that
detailed.
MITCHELL: ... well, two hours before the debate,
you did.
SANDERS: Well.
MITCHELL: But let me ask you about Vermont.
Because in Vermont — you tried in the state of
Vermont, and Vermont walked away from this
kind of idea, of — of Medicare for all, single-
payer, because they concluded it would require
major tax increases...
SANDERS: Well, that’s — you might want to
ask...
MITCHELL: ... and by some estimates, it would
double the budget. If you couldn’t sell it in
Vermont, Senator...
SANDERS: Andrea, let me just say this.
MITCHELL: ... how can you sell it to the country?
SANDERS: Let me just say that you might want
to ask the governor of the state of Vermont why
he could not do it. I’m not the governor. I’m the
senator from the state of Vermont.
(LAUGHTER)
But second of all — second of all...
(APPLAUSE)
... here is what the real point is, in terms of all
of the issues you’ve raised — the good questions
you’ve raised. You know what it all comes down
to?
Do you know why we can’t do what every other
country — major country on Earth is doing? It’s
because we have a campaign finance system
that is corrupt, we have super PACs, we have
the pharmaceutical industry pouring hundreds of
millions of dollars into campaign contributions
and lobbying, and the private insurance
companies as well.
What this is really about is not the rational way
to go forward — it’s Medicare for all — it is
whether we have the guts to stand up to the
private insurance companies and all of their
money, and the pharmaceutical industry. That’s
what this debate should be about.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Well, as someone who — as someone
who has a little bit of experience standing up to
the health insurance industry, that spent, you
know...
(APPLAUSE)
... many, many millions of dollars attacking me,
and probably will so again, because of what I
believe we can do building on the Affordable
Care Act, I think it’s important to point out that
there are a lot of reasons we have the health
care system we have today.
I know how much money influences the political
decision-making. That’s why I’m for huge
campaign finance reform. However, we started a
system that had private health insurance.
And even during the Affordable Care Act debate,
there was an opportunity to vote for what was
called the public option. In other words, people
could buy in to Medicare, and even when the
Democrats were in charge of the Congress, we
couldn’t get the votes for that.
So, what I’m saying is really simple. This has
been the fight of the Democratic Party for
decades. We have the Affordable Care Act. Let’s
make it work.
Let’s take the models that states are doing. We
now have driven costs down to the lowest
they’ve been in 50 years. Now we’ve got to get
individual costs down. That’s what I’m planning
to do.
HOLT: And that’s time (ph). We’re gonna take a
turn now.
Secretary Clinton, in his final State of the Union
address, President Obama said his biggest regret
was his inability to bring the country together. If
President Obama couldn’t do it, how will you?
O’MALLEY: Great question.
CLINTON: Well, I think it’s an important point the
president made in his State of the Union. And
here’s what I would say. I will go anywhere, to
meet with anyone, at any time to find common
ground.
That’s what I did as a first lady, when I worked
with both Democrats and Republicans to get the
Children’s Health Insurance Program, when I
worked with Tom DeLay, one of the most
partisan of Republicans, to reform the adoption
and foster care system.
What I did, working in the Senate, where I
crossed the aisle often, working even with the
senator from South Carolina, Lindsey Graham, to
get Tricare for national guardsmen and women.
And it’s what I did as Secretary of State, on
numerous occasions, and most particularly,
rounding up two-thirds votes in order to pass a
treaty that lowered the nuclear weapons in both
Russia and the United States. CLINTON: So I
know it’s hard, but I also know you’ve got to
work at it every single day. I look out here, I see
a lot of my friends from the Congress. And I
know that they work at it every single day.
Because maybe you can’t only find a little sliver
of common ground to cooperate with somebody
from the other party, but who knows. If you’re
successful there, maybe you can build even
more. That’s what I would do.
HOLT: That’s time. Senator Sanders, response.
(APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: A couple of years ago, when we
understood that veterans were not getting the
quality care they needed in the timely manner, I
worked with folks like John McCain and others to
pass the most comprehensive veteran’s health
care legislation in modern history.
But let me rephrase your question because I
think, in all do respect, you’re expression. In all
do respect, you’re missing the main point. And
the main point in the Congress, it’s not the
Republicans and Democrats hate each other.
That’s a mythology from the media. The real
issue is that Congress is owned by big money
and refuses to do what the American people
want them to do.
(APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: The real issue is that in area after
area, raising the minimum wage to $15 bucks an
hour. The American people want it. Rebuilding
our crumbling infrastructure, creating 13 million
jobs, the American people want it. The pay
equity for women, the American people want it.
Demanding that the wealthy start paying their
fair share of taxes. The American people want it.
HOLT: That’s time. But let me continue with
the...
SANDERS: The point is, we have to make
Congress respond to the needs of the people,
not big money.
HOLT: Senator Sanders, let me continue, you call
yourself a Democratic socialist...
SANDERS: I do. HOLT: And throughout your
career in politics, you’ve been critical of the
Democratic party, you’ve been saying in a book
you wrote, quote, “There wasn’t a hell of a big
difference between the the two major parties.”
How would you will a general election...
SANDERS: Did I say that?
HOLT: How will you win a general election
labeling yourself a democratic socialist?
SANDERS: Because of what I believe in what I
was just saying. The Democratic party needs
major reform. To those of you in South Carolina,
you know what, in Mississippi, we need a 50-
state strategy so that people in South Carolina
and Mississippi can get the resources that they
need.
Instead of being dependent on super PACs, what
we need is to be dependent on small, individual
campaign contributors. We need an agenda that
speaks to the needs of working families and low-
income people. Not wealthy campaign
contributors.
HOLT: Yes, but senator, you can...
SANDERS: We need to expand what the input
into the Democratic party. I am very proud that
in this campaign, we have seen an enormous
amount of excitement from young people, from
working people. We have received more
individual contributions than any candidate in the
history of this country up to this point.
(APPLAUSE)
O’MALLEY: Yes, but senator you never came to
campaign for Vincent Sheheen when he was
running for governor. In fact, neither of you came
to campaign for Vincent Sheheen when he was
running for governor.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: We can talk all we want about wanting to
build a stronger Democratic party, but Lester, the
question you answered, it’s no laughing matter.
The most recurring question I get when I stand
on the chair all across Iowa and talk with my
neighbors is, how are you going to heal the
divisions and the wounds in our country? This is
the biggest challenge we face as a people.
All my life, I brought people together over deep
divides and very old wounds, and that’s what we
need now in a new leader. We cannot keep
talking past each other, declaring all Republicans
are our enemies or the war is all about being
against millionaires or billionaires, or it’s all
against American Muslims, all against
immigrants.
Look, as Frederick Douglas said, we are one, our
cause is one, and we must help each other if we
are going to succeed. HOLT: And that is right.
SANDERS: And I respectfully disagree.
HOLT: Secretary Clinton, our next question is for
you. Here’s another quantitative problem.
SANDERS: And I respectfully disagree with my
friend over here. And that is, you are right. All of
us have denounced Trump’s attempts to divide
this country: the anti-Latino rhetoric, the racist
rhetoric, he anti-Muslim rhetoric.
But where I disagree with you, Governor
O’Malley, is I do believe we have to deal with the
fundamental issues of a handful of billionaires...
O’MALLEY: I agree with that.
SANDERS: ... who control economic and political
life of this country.
O’MALLEY: I agree.
SANDERS: Nothing real will get happened. Unless
we have a political revolution. Where millions of
people finally stand up.
HOLT: And we’re going to get into that coming
up. But Secretary Clinton, here’s a question from
YouTube. It’s from a young video blogger who
has over 5 million subscribers. He has a question
about the importance of younger voters.
FRANTA: Hi, I’m Connor Franta, I’m 23 and my
audience is around the same age. Getting my
generation to vote should be a priority for any
presidential candidate.
Now I know Senator Sanders is pretty popular
among my peers, but what I want to know is,
how are all of you planning on engaging us
further in this election?HOLT: Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: Well thanks for the question and
congratulations on five million viewers on
YouTube, that’s quite an accomplishment. Look,
this election is mostly about the future and
therefore it is of greatest urgency for young
people.
I’ve laid out my ideas about what we can do to
make college affordable; how we can help
people pay off their student debts and save
thousands of dollars, how we can create more
good jobs because a lot of the young people that
I talk with are pretty disappointed the economic
prospects they feel their facing. So making
community college free, making it possible to
attend a public college or university with debt
free tuition, looking for ways to protect our rights
especially from the concerted Republican
assault; on voting rights, on women’s rights, on
gay rights, on civil rights, on workers rights.
And I know how much young people value their
independence, their autonomy, and their rights.
So I think this is an election where we have to
pull young people and older people together to
have a strategy about how we’re going to
encourage even more American’s to vote
because it absolutely clear to me...
HOLT: That’s time...
CLINTON: That turning over our White House to
the Republicans would be bad for everybody
especially young people.
HOLT: A quick follow up — a thirty second follow
up.
Why is Senator Sanders beating you to 2 to 1
among younger votes?
CLINTON: Look, I have the greatest respect for
Senator Sanders and for his supports and I’m
going to keep working as hard as I can to reach
as many people of all ages about what I will do,
what the experience and the ideas that I have
that I will bring to the White House and I hope to
have their support when I’m the Democratic
nominee.
HOLT: We’re going to take...
SANDERS: Is that your strategy...
HOLT: We’re going to take a break. When we
come back; big banks, big business and big
differences among the three candidates on the
American Economy. We’ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLT: Welcome back from Charleston. Let’s turn
now to the economy.
Senator Sanders, you released a tough new ad
last week in which without mentioning Secretary
Clinton by name, you talk about two Democratic
visions for regulating Wall Street. “One says it’s
OK to take millions from big banks and tell them
what to do. My plan, break up the big banks,
close the tax loopholes and make them pay their
fair share.”
What do you see as the difference between what
you would do about the banks and what
Secretary Clinton would do?
SANDERS: Well, the first difference is I don’t
take money from big banks. I don’t get personal
speaking fees from Goldman Sachs. What I
would do...
(APPLAUSE)
What I would do is understand that when you
have three out of the four largest banks today,
bigger than they were when we bailed them out
because they were too big to fail, when you have
the six largest financial institutions having assets
of 60 percent of the GDP of America, it is very
clear to me what you have to do.
You’ve got to bring back the 21st century Glass-
Steagall legislation and you’ve got to break up
these huge financial institutions. They have too
much economic power and they have too much
financial power over our entire economy. If
Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, the old
Republican trust buster, what he would say is
these guys are too powerful. Break them up. I
believe that’s what the American people to want
see. That’s my view.
HOLT: Secretary Clinton, help the voter
understand the daylight between the two of you
here.
CLINTON: Well, there’s no daylight on the basic
premise that there should be no bank too big to
fail and no individual too powerful to jail. We
agree on that. But where we disagree is the
comments that Senator Sanders has made that
don’t just affect me, I can take that, but he’s
criticized President Obama for taking donations
from Wall Street, and President Obama has led
our country out of the great recession. Senator
Sanders called him weak, disappointing. He even,
in 2011, publicly sought someone to run in a
primary against President Obama. Now, I
personally believe that President Obama’s work
to push through the Dodd-Frank...
(LAUGHTER)
The Dodd-Frank bill and then to sign it was one
of the most important regulatory schemes we’ve
had since the 1930s. So I’m going to defend
Dodd-Frank and I’m going to defend President
Obama for taking on Wall Street, taking on the
financial industry and getting results.
(APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: OK. First of all...
HOLT: Senator Sanders, your response.
SANDERS: Set the record right. In 2006 when I
ran for the Senate, Senator Barack Obama was
kind enough to campaign for me, 2008, I did my
best to see that he was elected and in 2012, I
worked as hard as I could to see that he was
reelected. He and I are friends. We’ve worked
together on many issues. We have some
differences of opinion.
But here is the issue, Secretary touched on it,
can you really reform Wall Street when they are
spending millions and millions of dollars on
campaign contributions and when they are
providing speaker fees to individuals? So it’s
easy to say, well, I’m going to do this and do
that, but I have doubts when people receive huge
amounts of money from Wall Street. SANDERS: I
am very proud, I do not have a super PAC. I do
not want Wall Street’s money. I’ll rely on the
middle class and working families...
HOLT: That’s time.
Governor O’Malley...
(CROSSTALK)
SANDERS: ... campaign contributions.
HOLT: I have a question for you...
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: You know, I think since — since
Senator Standers followed up on this...
HOLT: Thirty-second response.
CLINTON: Your profusion of comments about
your feelings towards President Obama are a
little strange given what you said about him in
2011.
But look, I have a plan that most commentators
have said is tougher, more effective, and more
comprehensive.
O’MALLEY: That’s not true.
CLINTON: It builds on the Dodd-Frank — yes, it
is. It builds on the Dodd-Frank, regulatory
scheme...
O’MALLEY: It’s just not true.
CLINTON: ... but it goes much further, because...
O’MALLEY: Oh, come on.
CLINTON: ... both the governor and the senator
have focused only on the big banks. Lehman
Brothers, AIG, the shadow banking sector were
as big a problem in what caused the Great
Recession, I go after them.
And I can tell you that the hedge fund billionaires
who are running ads against me right now, and
Karl Rove, who started running an ad against me
right now, funded by money from the financial
services sector, sure thing, I’m the one they
don’t want to be up against.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Governor O’Malley.
O’MALLEY: Yes, thank you. Yes, Lester, what
Secretary Clinton just said is actually not true.
What — I have put forward a plan that would
actually put cops back on the beat of Wall
Street. I have put forward a plan that was
heralded as very comprehensive and realistic.
Look, if a bank robber robs a bank and all you do
is slap him on the wrist, he’s just going to keep
robbing banks again. The same thing is true with
people in suits.
Secretary Clinton, I have a tremendous amount
of respect for you, but for you to say there’s no
daylight on this between the three of us is also
not true. I support reinstituting a modern version
of Glass- Steagall that would include going after
the shadow banks, requiring capital requirements
that would force them to no longer put us on the
hook for these sorts of things.
In prior debates I’ve heard you even bring up — I
mean, now you bring up President Obama here in
South Carolina in defense of the fact of your
cozy relationship with Wall Street.
In an earlier debate, I heard you bring up even
the 9/11 victims to defend it. The truth of the
matter is, Secretary Clinton, you do not go as far
as reining in Wall Street as I would.
And the fact of the matter is, the people of
America deserve to have a president that’s on
their side, protecting the main street economy
from excesses on Wall Street. And we’re just as
vulnerable today.
HOLT: Secretary Clinton, 30-second response.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Yes, well, first of all — first of all, Paul
Krugman, Barney Frank, others have all endorsed
my plan. Secondly, we have Dodd-Frank. It gives
us the authority already to break up big banks
that pose...
O’MALLEY: And we have never used it.
CLINTON: That pose a risk to the financial
sector. I want to go further and add to that.
And, you know, Governor, you have raised money
on Wall Street. You raised a lot of money on Wall
Street when you were the head of the
Democratic Governor’s Association...
O’MALLEY: Yes, but I haven’t gotten a penny this
year... CLINTON: And you were...
O’MALLEY: ... so somebody please, go on to
martinomalley.com...
(LAUGHTER)
O’MALLEY: Go on to martinomalley.com, send
me your checks. They’re not giving me — zero.
CLINTON: Yes, well, the point is that if we’re
going to be serious about this and not just try to
score political points, we should know what’s in
Dodd-Frank, and what’s in Dodd-Frank already
gives the president the authority...
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: ... with his regulators to make those
decisions.
SANDERS: Let me give you an example of how
corrupt — how corrupt this system is. Goldman
Sachs recently fined $5 billion. Goldman Sachs
has given this country two secretaries of
treasury, one on the Republicans, one under
Democrats.
O’MALLEY: Say it.
SANDERS: The leader of Goldman Sachs is a
billionaire who comes to Congress and tells us
we should cut Social Security, Medicare, and
Medicaid.
Secretary Clinton — and you’re not the only one,
so I don’t mean to just point the finger at you,
you’ve received over $600,000 in speaking fees
from Goldman Sachs in one year.
I find it very strange that a major financial
institution that pays $5 billion in fines for
breaking the law, not one of their executives is
prosecuted, while kids who smoke marijuana get
a jail sentence.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: That’s time.
Andrea.
CLINTON: Well, the last point on this is, Senator
Sanders, you’re the only one on this stage that
voted to deregulate the financial market in 2000,
to take the cops off the street, to use Governor
O’Malley’s phrase, to make the SEC and the
Commodities Futures Trading Commission no
longer able to regulate swaps and derivatives,
which were one of the main cause of the
collapse in ’08.
So there’s plenty...
SANDERS: If you want to...CLINTON: There’s
plenty of problems that we all have to face
together.
And the final thing I would say, we’re at least
having a vigorous debate about reining in Wall
Street...
HOLT: ... Senator...
CLINTON: ... The Republicans want to give them
more power, and repeal Dodd-Frank. That’s what
we need to stop...
(APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: Anyone who wants to check my
record in taking on Wall Street, in fighting against
the deregulation of Wall Street when Wall Street
put billions of dollars in lobbying, in campaign
contributions to get the government off their
backs. They got the government off their backs.
Turns out that they were crooks, and they
destroyed our economy. I think it’s time to put
the government back on their backs.
(APPLAUSE)
MITCHELL: Senator Sanders — Senator Sanders,
you’ve talked a lot about things you want to do.
You want free education for everyone, you want
the Federal Minimum Wage raised to $15 an
hour. You want to expand Social Security...
SANDERS: ... Yeah...
MITCHELL: ... benefits. You’ve been specific
about what you want, but let’s talk about how to
pay for all this. You now said that you would
raise taxes today, two hours or so ago, you said
you would raise taxes to pay for your health care
plan. You haven’t been specific about how to pay
for the other things...
SANDERS: ... That’s true.
MITCHELL: ... Will you tell us tonight?
SANDERS: Good. You’re right. I want to rebuild
our crumbling infrastructure, create 13 million
jobs. We do that by doing away with the absurd
loophole that now allows major profitable
corporations to stash their money in the Cayman
(ph) Islands, and not in some years, pay a nickel
in taxes. Yes, I do. I plead guilty. I want every kid
in this country who has the ability to be able to
go to a public college, or university, tuition free.
And, by the way, I want to substantially lower
student debt interest rates in this country as
well.
How do I pay for it?
(APPLAUSE)
I pay for it through a tax on Wall Street
speculation. This country, and the middle class,
bailed out Wall Street. Now, it is Wall Street’s
time to help the middle class. In fact...
O’MALLEY: (inaudible)
SANDERS: ... we have documented, unlike
Secretary Clinton, I have documented exactly
how I would pay for our ambitious agenda.
O’MALLEY: Andrea...
MITCHELL: ... OK...
O’MALLEY: ... The only person on this stage who
has...
MITCHELL: ... Secretary Clinton, you mentioned
earlier — Secretary Clinton, do you want to
respond?
CLINTON: Well, I have actually documented every
way that I’m going to pay for what I’m doing
because I think the American public deserves to
know. And, you can go to my website and
actually see that.
But, there are serious questions about how we’re
going to pay for what we want to see our
country do. And, I’m the only candidate standing
here tonight who has said I will not raise taxes
on the middle class. I want to raise incomes, not
taxes, and I’m going to do everything I can to
make sure that the wealthy pay for debt free
tuition, for child care, for paid family leave. To
help us bring down student debt we’re going to
refinance that student debt, saving kids
thousands of dollars.
Yeah, and that will also come out of the — some
of the pockets of people in the financial services
industry...
MITCHELL: OK, we’re out of time. Senator
Sanders,
CLINTON: But I will tell you exactly how I pay for
everything I’ve proposed...
(CROSSTALK)
MITCHELL: Senator Sanders...
SANDERS: ... Here is the main two points...
MITCHELL: ... Senator Sanders, let me ask you a
question about taxes. SANDERS: Yeah.
MITCHELL: The most googled political issue...
SANDERS: ... I got it.
MITCHELL: In the last month was taxes. Now, in
your healthcare plan, the plan you released
tonight, you would not only raise taxes on the
wealthy, but the details you released indicate you
would raise taxes on the middle class also. Is
that correct?
SANDERS: What is correct, and I’m disappointed
that Secretary Clinton’s campaign has made this
criticism. It’s a Republican criticism. Secretary
Clinton does know a lot about healthcare, and
she understands, I believe, that a medicare for
all, single payer program will substantially lower
the cost of healthcare for middle class families.
So, what we have got to acknowledge, and I
hope the Secretary does, is we are doing away
with private health insurance premiums.
So, instead of paying $10,000 dollars to Blue
Cross, or Blue Shield, yes, some middle class
families would be paying slightly more in taxes,
but the result would be that that middle class
family would be saving some $5,000 dollars in
healthcare costs. A little bit more in taxes, do
away with private health insurance premiums.
It’s a pretty good deal.
(APPLAUSE)
MITCHELL: Senator — Senator, let me just follow
up on that.
SANDERS: Yeah.
MITCHELL: On Meet the Press on December
20th, you said that you would only raise taxes on
the middle class to pay for family leave. And,
having said that, now you say you’re going to
raise middle class taxes to pay for healthcare as
well. Is that breaking your word?
SANDERS: No, it is not breaking my word. When
you are — it’s one thing to say I’m raising taxes,
it’s another thing to say that we are doing away
with private health insurance
premiums.SANDERS: So, if I save you $10,000 in
private health insurance, and you pay a little bit
more in taxes in total, there are huge savings in
what your family is spending.
O’MALLEY: Senator, I’m the only person on this
stage that’s actually balanced a budget every
year for 15 years.
SANDERS: I was mayor for eight years, I did that
as well.
(LAUGHTER)
O’MALLEY: OK. So, that was eight years. Yes.
And Senator, but I actually did it during a budget
down time — I mean, during a recession.
And Andrea, the — I had to make more cuts than
any governor in the history of Maryland, but we
invested more in infrastructure, more in
transportation. We made our public schools more
in America more than five years in a row, and
went four years in a row without a penny’s
increase to college tuition.
The things that we need to do in our country,
like debt-free college in the next five years, like
making universal — like making national service a
universal option in order to cut youth
unemployment in half in the next three years, all
these things can be done if we eliminate one
entitlement we can no longer afford as a nation.
And that is the wealthy among us, those making
more than a million dollars, feel that they are
entitled to paying a much lower marginal tax rate
than was usual for the better part of these 80
years.
And if we tax earnings from investments on
money — namely capital gains — at the same
rate as we tax sweat and hard work and toil, we
can make the investments we need to make to
make our country better.
HOLT: We have got a lot to ground to cover
here.
Many Democratic voters are passionate about
the need to do something to combat the threat
of climate change, including the team of
scientists from Youtube’s MinuteEarth channel.
Here’s their take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: Hello from
MinuteEarth. Fossil fuels have long kept our cars
moving and our light bulbs lit.
But we know that burning these fuels releases
heat-trapping gases that are warming the planet,
causing seas to rise and contributing to extreme
weather events, like South Carolina’s devastating
flooding last year.
Fighting human-caused climate change means
giving up our global addiction to fossil fuels and
shifting the bulk of the world’s energy supply to
alternative sources.
Some countries have acted decisively to make
this transition. But here at home, we still get a
whooping 82 percent of our energy from coal, oil,
and natural gas.
In the U.S., political gridlock, pressure from
industry lobbyists and insufficient R&D have
made an already tough battle against climate
change even tougher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLT: Senator Sanders, Americans love their
SUVs, which spiked in sales last year as gas
prices plummeted.
How do you convince Americans that the
problem of climate change is so urgent that they
need to change their behavior?
SANDERS: I think we already are. Younger
generation understands it instinctively.
I was home in Burlington, Vermont, on Christmas
Eve, the temperature was 65 degrees. People in
Vermont know what’s going on. People who did
ice fishing, where their ice is no longer there on
the lake understand what’s going on.
I’m on both the Environmental and Energy
Committees. The debate is over. Climate change
is real. It is already causing major problems. And
if we do not act boldly and decisively, a bad
situation will become worse.
It is amazing to me, and I think we’ll have
agreement on this up here, that we have a major
party, called the Republican Party that is so
owned by the fossil fuel industry and their
campaign contributions that they don’t even have
the courage, the decency to listen to the
scientists.
(APPLAUSE)
It is beyond my comprehension how we can
elect a president of the United States, somebody
like Trump, who believes that climate change is
a hoax invented by the Chinese.
(LAUGHTER)
Bottom line is, we need to be bold and decisive,
we can create millions of jobs. We must, for the
sake of our kids and grandchildren, transform our
energy system away from fossil fuel to energy
efficiency and sustainable energy.
I’ve got the most comprehensive legislation in
the Senate to do that. And as president, I will
fight to make that happen.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Governor O’Malley, 30 seconds.
O’MALLEY: Thank you.
Lester, on this stage tonight, this Democratic
stage, where we actually believe in science.
(LAUGHTER)
I would like to challenge and invite my
colleagues here on this stage to join me in
putting forward a plan to move us to a 100
percent clean, electric energy grid by 2050. It
can be done.
(APPLAUSE)
With solar, with wind, with new technologies, with
green buildings, this can happen, but in all —
President Obama made us more energy
independent, but in all of the above strategy
didn’t land us on the moon, we need American
ingenuity and we need to reach by 2050 for the
sake of our kids.
HOLT: That’s time. We’re going to take a break.
CLINTON: And let me...
HOLT: When we return, the late-breaking
developments regarding Iran. The threat of ISIS
now more real than ever on U.S. soil. Americans
in fear and hearing few good answers.
We’ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TODD: And we are back. I’m Chuck Todd. We are
just past the halfway mark in our NBC News
YouTube Democratic Candidates Debate. Boy,
this is one that has actually lived up to the
billing.
We’ve seen some sharp exchanges on guns,
health care and Wall Street — the debate, you
could argue, that has been largely focused on all
things Bernie Sanders.
He was on the defensive early, Hillary Clinton
getting, I think, some control on the gun issue.
But on health care and on Wall Street reform, it
was Hillary Clinton on the defensive, and was a
very aggressive Bernie Sanders.
One thing of note here: Bernie Sanders very
much being the sort of revolutionary candidate,
major change, and you’ve heard a lot of Hillary
Clinton saying things like she wants to build on
the things that President Obama did, wrapping
herself in President Obama.
Let’s go back downstairs and check in with our
moderators, Lester and Andrea. So what’s
coming up next, guys?
HOLT: Well, we’ve covered a lot of ground
already, but we’re gonna be talking about ISIS. A
threat to America, it’s — always polls as one of
the top concerns of Americans. And also some
more late-breaking news.
MITCHELL: We have all the news that has
happened from Iran and the president’s
comments today, as well as what this means
going forward for the War on Terror. What do we
expect from Iran, and also what’s happening in
Syria? So a lot of foreign policy coming up.
HOLT: A lot of debate to come. We’ll be back in
Charleston after this.
TODD: You’ve got it. Well, it’s the commander-in-
chief test — that’s what’s next. Stay with us —
the debate resumes right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLT: Charleston, Andrea Mitchell has questions
now starting with Iran.
MITCHELL: Thank you Lester.
Senator Sanders, the nuclear deal is now
enforced. Iran is getting it’s billions of dollars,
several Americans who have been held are now
going to be heading home. The president said
today, “it’s a good day. It’s a good day for
diplomacy. It’s a time now to restore diplomatic
relations for the first time since 1979 and
actually re- opened a U.S. Embassy in Tehran.”
SANDERS: I think what we’ve got to do is move
as aggressively as we can to normalize relations
with Iran. Understanding that Iran’s behavior in
so many ways is something that we disagree
with; their support terrorism, the anti-American
rhetoric that we’re hearing from of their
leadership is something that is not acceptable.
On the other hand, the fact that we’ve managed
to reach an agreement, something that I’ve very
strongly supported that prevents Iran from
getting a nuclear weapon and we did that without
going to war. And that I believe we’re seeing a
fall in our relationships with Iran is a very
positive step. So if your question is, do I want to
see that relationship become more positive in the
future? Yes.
Can I tell that we should open an embassy in
Tehran tomorrow? No, I don’t think we should.
But I think the goal has go to be as we’ve done
with Cuba, to move in warm relations with a very
powerful and important country in this world.
MITCHELL: Your response Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: Well, I’m very proud of the Iran
Nuclear Agreement. I was very pleased to be
part of what the president put into action when
he took office. I was responsible for getting
those sanctions imposed which put the pressure
on Iran. It brought them to the negotiating table
which resulted in this agreement.
And so, they have been so far, following their
requirements under the agreement. But I think
we still have to carefully watch them. We’ve had
one good day over 36 year and I think we need
more good days before we move more rapidly
toward any kind of normalization. And we have
to be sure that they are truly going to implement
the agreement. And then, we have to go after
them on a lot of their other bad behavior in the
region which is causing enormous problems in
Syria, Yemen, Iraq and elsewhere.
MITCHELL: You mentioned Syria. Let me ask you
about Syria, all of you. Let’s turn to Syria and
the civil war that has been raging there. Are
there any circumstances in which you could see
deploying significant numbers of ground forces in
Syria, not just specials forces but significant
ground forces to combat ISIS in a direct combat
role?
Let me start with you Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: Absolutely not.
I have a three point plan that does not include
American Ground forces. It includes the United
States leading an air coalition which is what
we’re doing, supporting fighters on the ground;
the Iraqi Army which is beginning to show more
ability, the Sunni fighters that we are now
helping to reconstitute and Kurdish on both sides
of the border.
I think we also have try to disrupt their supply
chain of foreign fighters and foreign money and
we do have to contest them in online space. So
I’m very committed to both going after ISIS but
also supporting what Secretary Kerry is doing to
try to move on a political diplomatic to try to
begin to slow down and hopefully end the
carnage in Syria which is the root of so many of
the problems that we seen in the region and
beyond.
MITCHELL: Senator Sanders, ground forces yes
or no? SANDERS: As everybody you know, this is
incredibly complicated and difficult issue and I
applaud. I know President Obama’s been getting
a lot of criticism on this. I think he is doing the
right thing.
What the nightmare is, which many of my
Republican colleagues appear to want is to not
have learned the lesson of Iraq. To get American
young men and women involved in perpetual
warfare in the quagmire of Syria and the Middle
East would be an unmitigated disaster that as
president, I will do everything in my power to
avoid.
O’MALLEY: Andrea...
MITCHELL: Governor O’Malley?
SANDERS: We should — we should learn — we
should learn from King Abdullah of Jordan, one
of the few heroes in a very unheroic place. And
what Abdullah said is this is a war with a soul of
Islam and that Muslim troops should be on the
ground with our support and the support of other
major countries. That is how we destroy ISIS, not
with American troops in perpetual warfare.
MITCHELL: Governor O’Malley.
O’MALLEY: Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
Andrea, governors have led us to victory in two
world wars by doing what America does best,
and that is by joining forces with others by
acting in coalition. And I believe that President
Obama is doing the right thing in this case.
We need to learn the lessons from the past. We
do need to provide the special — special ops
advisers, we need — do need to provide the
technical support, but over the long-term, we
need to develop new alliances. We need a much
more proactive national security strategy that
reduces these threats before they rise to a level
where it feels like we need to pull for a division
of marines.
And I also want to add one other thing here. I
appreciate the fact that in our debate, we don’t
use the term you hear Republicans throwing
around trying to look all vibrato (ph) and macho
sending other kids — kids into combat, they keep
using the term boots on the ground. A woman in
Burlington, Iowa said to me, “Governor, when
you’re with your colleagues, please don’t refer to
my son who has served two tours of duty in Iraq
as a pair of boots on the ground.” Now, we need
to be mindful of learning the lessons of the past.
(APPLAUSE)
MITCHELL: I have a question. I have a question
for Senator Sanders. Did the policies of the
Obama administration, in which Secretary Clinton
of course was a part, create a vacuum in Iraq
and Syria that helped ISIS grow?
SANDERS: No. I think the vacuum was created
by the disastrous war in Iraq, which I vigorously
opposed. Not only did I vote against it, I helped
lead the opposition. And what happened there is
yes, it’s easy to get rid of a two-bit dictator like
Saddam Hussein, but there wasn’t the kind of
thought as to what happens the day after you
get him and what kind of political vacuum
occurs. And who rises up? Groups like ISIS.
So I think that President Obama made a promise
to the American people when he ran, and he said
you know what, I’m going to do my best to bring
American troops home. And I supported what he
did. Our job is to train and provide military
support for Muslim countries in the area who are
prepared to take on ISIS.
And one point I want to make here that is not
made very often, you have incredibly wealthy
countries in that region, countries like Saudi
Arabia, countries like Qatar. Qatar happens to be
the largest — wealthiest country per capita in the
world. They have got to start putting in some
skin in the game and not just ask the United
States to do it.
(APPLAUSE)
MITCHELL: Secretary Clinton, I want to talk to
you about red lines, because former Defense
Secretary Chuck Hagel said in a recent interview
that President Obama’s decision to stand down
on planned missile strikes against Damascus
after Assad had used chemical weapons hurt the
president’s credibility. Should the president have
stuck to his red line once he drew it?
CLINTON: Look, I think that the president’s
decision to go after the chemical weapons once
there was a potential opportunity to build on
when the Russians opened that door resulted in a
very positive outcome. We were able to get the
chemical weapons out.
I know from my own experience as secretary of
State that we were deeply worried about Assad’s
forces using chemical weapons because it would
have had not only a horrific affect on people in
Syria, but it could very well have affected the
surrounding states, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon,
Turkey. So getting those chemical weapons out
was a big deal, but...
MITCHELL: But should he — should he have
stuck to his...
CLINTON: Well — but — but...
MITCHELL: ... line? Did it hurt U.S. credibility?
CLINTON: I think, as commander in chief, you’ve
got to constantly be evaluating the decisions you
have to make. I know a little bit about this,
having spent many hours in the situation room,
advising President Obama.
And I want to just add to something that Senator
Sanders said, the United States had a very big
interest in trying to help stabilize the region. If
there is any blame to be spread around, it starts
with the prime minister of Iraq, who
sectarianized his military, setting Shia against
Sunni.
It is amplified by Assad, who has waged one of
the bloodiest, most terrible attacks on his own
people: 250,000-plus dead, millions fleeing.
Causing this vacuum that has been filled
unfortunately, by terrorist groups, including ISIS.
So, I think we are in the midst of great turmoil in
this region. We have a proxy conflict going on
between Saudi Arabia and Iran. You know, one of
the criticisms I’ve had of Senator Sanders is his
suggestion that, you know, Iranian troops be used
to try to end the war in Syria...
MITCHELL: Your time is up.
CLINTON: ... and go after ISIS, which I don’t
think would be a good idea.
SANDERS: Let me just...
MITCHELL: Senator....
CLINTON: But overall, a lot of the forces at work
in the region are ones that we cannot directly
influence, but we can...
MITCHELL: You’re out of time.
SANDERS: OK. Let me suggest...
(CROSSTALK)
MITCHELL: Senator Sanders.
SANDERS: Where Secretary Clinton and I think, I
agree with most of what she said. But where I
think we do have an honest disagreement, is that
in the incredible quagmire of Syria, where it’s
hard to know who’s fighting who and if you give
arms to this guy, it may end up in ISIS’ hand the
next day. We all know that.
And we all know, no argument, the secretary is
absolutely right, Assad is a butcher of his own
people, man using chemical weapons against his
own people. This is beyond disgusting.
But I think in terms of our priorities in the region,
our first priority must be the destruction of ISIS.
Our second priority must be getting rid of Assad,
through some political settlement, working with
Iran, working with Russia.
But the immediate task is to bring all interests
together who want to destroy ISIS, including
Russia, including Iran, including our Muslim allies
to make that the major priority.
O’MALLEY: But in all of that senator and
secretary, I think we’re leaving out something
very important here. And that is that we still
don’t have the human intelligence: overt, in
terms of diplomatic intelligence or covert, to
understand even what the heck happens as the
secondary and tertiary effects of some of these
things.
We are walking through this region, Andrea,
without the human intelligence that we need.
And we need to make a renewed investment as
a country in bringing up a new generation of
foreign service officers, and bringing up a new
generation of business people and actually
understanding and having relationships in these
places.
So we have a better sense of what the heck
happens after a dictator topples and can take
action to prevent another safe haven and
another iteration of terror.
MITCHELL: Your time is us. Lester.
HOLT: Senator Sanders mentioned Russia a
moment ago. Secretary Clinton, you famously
handed Russia’s foreign minister a reset button
in 2009. Since then, Russia has annexed Crimea,
fomented a war in Ukraine, provided weapons
that downed an airliner and launched operations,
as we just did discuss, to support Assad in Syria.
As president, would you hand Vladimir Putin a
reset button?
CLINTON: Well, it would depend on what I got for
it and I can tell you what we got in the first
term, we got a new start treaty to reduce
nuclear weapons between the United States and
Russia. We got permission to resupply our troops
in Afghanistan by traveling across Russia.
We got Russia to sign on to our sanctions
against Iran and other very important
commitments. So look, in diplomacy, you are
always trying to see how you can figure out the
interest of the other to see if there isn’t some
way you can advance your security and your
values.
When Putin came back in the fall of 2011, it was
very clear he came back with a mission. And I
began speaking out as soon as that happened
because there were some fraudulent elections
held, and Russians poured out into the streets to
demand their freedom, and he cracked down. And
in fact, accused me of fomenting it. So we now
know that he has a mixed record to say the least
and we have to figure out how to deal with him.
HOLT: What’s your relationship with him?
CLINTON: Well, my relationship with him, it’s —
it’s interesting.
(LAUGHTER)
It’s one, I think, of respect. We’ve had some very
tough dealings with one another. And I know that
he’s someone that you have to continuingly
stand up to because, like many bullies, he is
somebody who will take as much as he possibly
can unless you do.
And we need to get the Europeans to be more
willing to stand up, I was pleased they put
sanctions on after Crimea and eastern Ukraine
and the downing of the airliner, but we’ve got to
be more united in preventing Putin from taking a
more aggressive stance in Europe and the Middle
East.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: We to want turn right now to the issue of
balancing national security concerns with the
privacy rights of Americans. That brings us to
YouTube and this question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWNLEE: Hi, my name Marques Brownlee, and
I’ve been making YouTube videos about
electronics and gadgets for the past seven
years.
I think America’s future success is tied to
getting all kinds of tech right. Tech companies
are responsible for the encryption technology to
protect personal data, but the government wants
a back door into that information.
So do you think it’s possible to find common
ground? And where do you stand on privacy
versus security?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLT: So, Governor O’Malley.
O’MALLEY: Thank you.
I believe whether it’s a back door or a front door
that the American principle of law should still
hold that our federal government should have to
get a warrant, whether they want to come
through the back door or your front door.
(APPLAUSE)
And I also agree, Lester, with Benjamin Franklin,
who said, no people should ever give up their
privacy or their freedoms in a promise for
security.
So we’re a collaborative people. We need
collaborative leadership here with Silicon Valley
and other bright people in my own state of
Maryland and around the NSA that can actually
figure this out.
But there are certain immutable principles that
will not become antique things in our country so
long as we defend our country and its values and
its freedoms. And one of those things is our right
to be secure in our homes, and our right to
expect that our federal government should have
to get a warrant.
I also want to the say that while we’ve made
some progress on the Patriot Act, I do believe
that we need an adversarial court system there.
We need a public advocate. We need to develop
jurisprudence so that we can develop a body of
law that protects the privacy of Americans in the
information and digital age.
HOLT: That’s time.
You have all talked about what you would do
fighting ISIS over there, but we’ve been hit in
this country by home-grown terrorists, from
Chattanooga to San Bernardino, the recent
shooting of a police officer in Philadelphia. How
are you going to fight the lone wolves here,
Senator Sanders?
O’MALLEY: Yes, Lester, year in and year out I
was the leader of the U.S. ...
HOLT: That’s a question to Senator Sanders. I
wasn’t clear, I apologize.
SANDERS: OK. I just wanted to add, in the
previous question, I voted against the USA
Patriot Act for many of the reasons that
Governor O’Malley mentioned. But it is not only
the government that we have to worry about, it
is private corporations.
You would all be amazed, or maybe not, about
the amount of information private companies and
the government has in terms of the Web sites
that you access, the products that you buy,
where you are this very moment.
And it is very clear to me that public policy has
not caught up with the explosion of technology.
So yes, we have to work with Silicon Valley to
make sure that we do not allow ISIS to transmit
information...
HOLT: But in terms of lone wolves, the threat,
how would you do it?
SANDERS: Right. What we have got to do there
is, among other things, as I was just saying, have
Silicon Valley help us to make sure that
information being transmitted through the
Internet or in other ways by ISIS is, in fact,
discovered.
But I do believe we can do that without violating
the constitutional and privacy rights of the
American people.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: We have to go to a — we have to go to a
break, and when we come back, we’re going to
get to some of the burning questions these
candidates have yet to answer and are totally
eager to talk about.
CLINTON: Oh, we’re breaking? OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLT: And welcome back to Charleston.
As we were going to a break, Secretary Clinton, I
cut you off. I’ll give you 30 seconds to respond
on the issue of lone wolves.
O’MALLEY: Can I get 30 seconds, too?
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Can I get 50 seconds?
HOLT: Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: Well, I wanted to say, and I’ll do it
quickly, I was very pleased that leaders of
President Obama’s administration went out to
Silicon Valley last week and began exactly this
conversation about what we can do, consistent
with privacy and security.
We need better intelligence cooperation, we need
to be sure that we are getting the best
intelligence that we can from friends and allies
around the world. And then, we’ve got to
recognize our first line of defense against lone
wolf attacks is among Muslim Americans.
And it is not only shameful, it is dangerous for
the kinds of comments you’re hearing from the
Republican side.
We need to be reaching out and unifying our
country against terrorist attacks and lone wolves,
and working with Muslim Americans.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: And Andrea has a follow-up.
O’MALLEY: And Andrea — Andrea — Andrea...
MITCHELL: Just a — just a quick follow-up,
though, Secretary Clinton. Just a moment,
Governor.
O’MALLEY: Andrea, when can I get my 30
seconds?
MITCHELL: But — but — Secretary Clinton, you
said that the leaders from the intelligence
community went to Silicon Valley, they were
flatly turned down. They got nowhere.
CLINTON: That is not what I’ve heard. Let me
leave it at that.
O’MALLEY: Andrea, I need to talk about
homeland security and preparedness.
Ever since the attacks of September 11th — 30
seconds.
(LAUGHTER)
Ever since the attacks of September 11th, my
colleagues, Democratic and Republican mayors,
Democratic and Republican governors, made me
their leader on homeland security and
preparedness.O’MALLEY: Here in the homeland,
unlike combating ISIL abroad, we’re almost like
it’s — your body’s immune system. It’s able to
protect your body against bad bugs, not
necessarily because it outnumbers them, but it’s
better connected — the fusion centers, the
biosurveillance systems, better prepared first
responders.
But there’s another front in this battle, and it is
this. That’s the political front, and if Donald
Trump wants to start a registry in our country of
people by faith, he can start with me, and I will
sign up as one who is totally opposed to his
fascist appeals that wants to vilify American
Muslims. That can do more damage to our
democracy than any...
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: All right, that’s time, and — and we do...
(APPLAUSE)
... we do have to move on.
Secretary Clinton, this is the first time...
SANDERS: Can I get a — can I just get a very
brief response? Very brief.
HOLT: Thirty — 30 — 30 seconds, Senator.
SANDERS: OK. One — and I agree with what the
secretary said, and what Governor O’Malley said.
But here’s an issue that we also should talk
about. We have a $600 billion military budget. It
is a budget larger than the next eight countries’.
Unfortunately, much of that budget continues to
fight the old Cold War with the Soviet Union. Very
little of that budget — less than 10 percent —
actually goes into fighting ISIS and international
terrorism. We need to be thinking hard about
making fundamental changes in the priorities of
the Defense Department.
HOLT: All right. Secretary Clinton...
(APPLAUSE)
... this is the first time that a spouse of a former
president could be elected president. You have
said that President Clinton would advise you on
economic issues, but be specific, if you can. Are
you talking about a kitchen-table role on
economics, or will he have a real policy role?
CLINTON: Well, it’ll start at the kitchen table,
we’ll see how it goes from there. And I...
(APPLAUSE)
... I’m going to have the very best advisers that I
can possibly have, and when it comes to the
economy and what was accomplished under my
husband’s leadership and the ’90s — especially
when it came to raising incomes for everybody
and lifting more people out of poverty than at
any time in recent history — you bet.
I’m going to ask for his ideas, I’m going ask for
his advice, and I’m going use him as a goodwill
emissary to go around the country to find the
best ideas we’ve got, because I do believe, as he
said, everything that’s wrong with America has
been solved somewhere in America.
We just have to do more of it, and we have to
reach out, especially into poor communities and
communities of color, to give more people their
own chance to get ahead.
HOLT: Senator sanders, a 30 second response,
sir.
(APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: Great ideas, Governor O’Malley,
Secretary Clinton, but here’s the truth. If you
have an administration stacked with Wall Street
appointees, it ain’t going to accomplish very
much.
So here’s a promise that I make — and I
mentioned a moment ago how corrupt the
system is — Goldman Sachs, paying a $5 billion
fine, gives this country, in recent history, a
Republican secretary of treasury, a Democratic
secretary of treasury.
Here’s a promise. If elected president, Goldman
Sachs is not going to have — bring forth a
secretary of treasury for a Sanders
administration.
(APPLAUSE)
MILLER: Senator Sanders, let me ask you a
question. You called Bill Clinton’s past
transgressions, quote, “totally, totally, totally
disgraceful and unacceptable.” Senator, do you
regret saying that?
SANDERS: I was asked a question. You know,
one of the things, Andrea, and I — that question
annoys me. I cannot walk down the street —
Secretary Clinton knows this — without being told
how much I have to attack secretary Clinton,
want to get me on the front pages of the paper,
I’d make some vicious attack.
I have avoided doing that. Trying to run an issue-
oriented campaign.
(APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: I was asked a question.
MILLER: You didn’t have to answer it that way,
though. Why did you?
SANDERS: Well — then if I don’t answer it, then
there’s another front page, so it’s yes (ph).
(LAUGHTER)
And I mean this seriously. You know that. We’ve
been through this. Yes, his behavior was
deplorable. Have I ever once said a word about
that issue? No, I have not. I’m going to debate
Secretary Clinton, Governor O’Malley, on the
issues facing the American people, not Bill
Clinton’s personal behavior.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: We will take a break. We’ll continue from
Charleston right after this.(COMMERCIAL
BREAK) HOLT: Welcome back everybody. Finally,
before we go tonight, we set out here to
understand points of differences between you.
We believe we’ve learned a lot here, but before
we leave, is there anything that you really
wanted to say tonight that you haven’t gotten a
chance to say.
And, we’ll start with Governor O’Malley.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLT: Didn’t see that coming, did you?
O’MALLEY: Yes, but we’re going to have to get
20 minutes to do it, so.
(LAUGHTER)
MITCHELL: ...too long (ph).
O’MALLEY: I believe there are many issues. I
have 60 seconds for this?
HOLT: Sixty seconds, we’d appreciate it.
O’MALLEY: There are so many issues that we
haven’t been able to discuss here. We have not
fully discussed immigration reform, and the
deplorable number of immigrant detention camps
that our nation’s now maintaining. We haven’t
discussed the shameful treatment that the
people of Puerto Rico, our fellow Americans, are
getting treated with by these hedge funds that
are working them over.(APPLAUSE)
O’MALLEY: We haven’t discussed the fact that in
our hemisphere we have the danger of nation-
state failures because of drug traffickers; and
Honduras, and Guatemala and El Salvador.
I guess the bottom line is this, look we are a
great people the way we act at home and
abroad based on the beliefs that unite us. Our
belief in the dignity of every person, our belief in
our own common good. There is now challenge
that is too great for us to overcome provided we
bring forward in these divided times, new
leadership that can heal our divides here at
home and bring our principles into alignment
abroad.
We’re on the threshold of a new era of American
progress and I believe we have only need to join
forces together and cross that threshold into a
new era of American prosperity.
HOLT: And that’s time.
O’MALLEY: Thanks a lot.
HOLT: Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: Well Lester, I spent a lot of time last
week being outraged by what’s happening in
Flint, Michigan and I think every single American
should be outraged. We’ve had a city in the
United States of America where the population
which is poor in many ways and majority African
American has been drinking and bathing in lead
contaminated water. And the governor of that
state acted as though he didn’t really care.
He had request for help and he had basically
stone walled. I’ll tell you what, if the kids in a
rich suburb of Detroit had been drinking
contaminated water and being bathed in it, there
would’ve been action.
So I sent my top campaign aide down there to
talk to the mayor of Flint to see what I could to
help. I issued a statement about what we needed
to do and then I went on a T.V. show and I said,
“it was outrageous that the governor hadn’t
acted and within two hours he had.”
HOLT: And that’s time.
CLINTON: I want to be a president who takes
care of the big problems and the problems that
are affecting the people of our country everyday.
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Thank you.
Senator Sanders?
SANDERS: Well, Secretary Clinton was right and
what I did which I think is also right, is
demanded the resignation of governor. A man
who acts that irresponsibly should not stay in
power.
Now, we are a great nation — and we’ve heard a
lot of great ideas here tonight. Let’s be honest
and let’s be truthful. Very little is going to be
done to transform our economy and to create
the kind of middle class we need unless we end
a corrupt campaign finance system which is
undermining American democracy.
We’ve got to get rid of Super PACs, we’ve got to
get rid of Citizens’ United and what we’ve got to
do is create a political revolution which
revitalizes American democracy; which brings
millions of young people and working people into
the political process. To say loudly and clearly,”
that the government of the United States of
America belongs to all of us and not just a
handful of wealthy campaign contributors.”
HOLT: All right. Well thank you and thanks to all
of you for being here tonight shedding light on
some of the differences as Americans get ready
to vote.
I also want to thank the Congressional Black
Caucus Institute and certainly my friend and
colleague, Andrea Mitchell. This has been great.
It’s been a great spirited conversation and
American people appreciate it.
Let me turn it over to my friend Chuck Todd
now. Chuck?
TODD: Lester thank you and a terrific job
moderating this debate tonight, Andrea as well.
What a lively substantive debate. We thought
there were going to be fireworks, there certainly
were.
You heard sort of the sharp disagreements when
it comes to guns, when it comes to Wall Street
Reform, when it comes to health care and even a
few things on foreign policy. We’re going to
break all of it down here in a few minutes but
we’re going to try to sneak in a short break.
And when we come back, instant analysis. We’ll
see if we can find out what the campaigns are
doing. We’re live right here in the spin room in
Charleston, South Carolina.